Tech Giants Have Stacks of Cash. Should They Use It to Advance Black Economic Equity?
Max Joseph, DEI Program Manager at Google, has the answers.
This week I had an energizing conversation with Max Joseph, Diversity and Inclusion Marketing Program Manager. Max is a true marketer at heart — I loved some of his analogies in describing the D&I journey that companies, and marketers, are making in these historic times.
In the public sector, rules and regulations guide how governments hire external vendors. Many of these include goals around vendor diversity, to support Black-owned, veteran-owned, and other businesses owned by marginalized groups.
But in the private sector, those goals aren’t regulated. And while the fight rages on about how to pay employees fairly, with benefits and a living wage, companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars on their supply chains and vendors. That’s why Google set out to design their entire Marketing Ops program with an eye for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.
Erin: So you are in a role that’s a bit different from the HR-side of D&I. Tell me about it.
Max: I’m a DEI [Diversity, Equity & Inclusion] Program Manager in our marketing ops team. I look at the process in which a marketer completes their work. For example, how we add training, curriculum, tools, and more to make sure that the work is representative of those audiences.
Don’t ask the question, “How do I solve diversity?” That’s too large and vague to achieve. Be more targeted.
It’s been fun starting up this team — we just came into existence at Google in the past year.
How has the team evolved since its inception a year ago?
Google’s been on a journey to get this right for some time. We saw this as an opportunity to be more authentic and more relatable to our users.
The challenge with a company so large is implementing process, rigor, and standards that can establish a baseline but are also malleable for different regions, behaviors, groups across the globe.
We’ve always believed that more inclusive work is better, but how do you make it so that people don’t have to “think” about doing it more?
Anything diversity-related always seems like a big challenge, but this is just a structure to make it easier for everyone.
But, don’t ask the question, “How do I solve diversity?” That’s too large and vague to achieve. Be more targeted. Look at your processes — every single aspect — through a diversity lens. If you’re a marketer like me that’s everything from the creative brief, all the way through to outcomes.
Going back to your point about improving processes so people don’t have to think about diversity. Do you think that takes away from employees actually learning about inclusivity?
I don’t know if there’s actually an end state. I don’t know if this work ever actually goes away.
For example, you achieve the baseline. Now you should 10x that. For example, we started doing these pop-up events for “Grow with Google”, but what that has grown into now is a real-world and digital-first experiences for minority-owned businesses.
Tech is so used to solving these big challenges in very innovative ways, throwing tons of resources and algorithms at it, but diversity is a human connection problem. You can’t write an algorithm to make people want to make those human connections.
D&I is predicated on a problem that was here long before this company started and will most likely not go away within any of our lifetimes. We have to do things intentionally so that we are not perpetuating things that we don’t want. Things like who we hire, how we invest in communities, training curriculum, dialogues internally, accountability measures when things are not going right. Accountability should be at all levels (Author’s note: read more on Accountability here).
Diversity is a giant hairball. It’s large, complex; it’s interwoven. You either need to tackle the problem from every angle or you burn it all to the ground and start anew. But for large companies, the latter is almost impossible in practice. My advice is, approach it like any other business problem.
Tech is so used to solving these big challenges in very innovative ways, throwing tons of resources and algorithms at it, but diversity is a human connection problem. You can’t write an algorithm to make people want to make those human connections.
How can, or should, corporations start to impact positive outcomes for Black people?
In the applying of labels to people, you are further contextualizing problems. Inherently people want to be a part of something.
If I think about the young millennial workforce today, there are reasons that so many of them are activists. They’re looking at how they can use their buying power as a way to be activists. It’s such a smart way to do it.
The solution for companies often becomes: I need to hire more XYZ type of person. Yes, and — there has to be more intention behind it. You need to be more thoughtful about what you want the room to look like as you’re having business conversations.
Think about a board of directors. Does that board of directors represent the diversity of the places and people and countries that those companies operate in?
Companies often think about the diversity of the workforce, [but] not all levels. You end up with a lot of junior folks.
What’s a piece of advice you would give someone starting an org like yours at the company?
Regardless of the size of the company, the universal color that’s understood is green. Choose where and how you spend your money, how you make your investments. Be thoughtful about where you put your money and the investment in time.
I’m intentional about the creative partners I choose in my process, I’d better see representation either in leadership or the people doing the work. I know I’m going to get better outcomes. Even the decisions I make as a parent, as a consumer, I make based on these.
Regardless of the size of the company, the universal color that’s understood is green.
If the whole world made decisions like this, companies would rise and fall based on representation.
Measurement is key. But don’t spend too much time measuring.
If you are giving someone your money, ask them for the representation. I think white people feel really uncomfortable saying that. “I don’t feel like I’m well informed” or “I’m not in the position”. Well, if you are the one with the checkbook, you are in the position.
If you think you’re not equipped, then go do the work [of becoming anti-racist and better informed on Black history in America]. Doing the work on this stuff is doing the work of being a better human. Reflect on where you are, identify the gaps, and then go do the work!
Erin Braddock Guthrie writes about anti-racism in the workplace with pragmatic, actionable tips for business leaders and employees alike. You can read her 4-part series on “Why ‘Diversity and Inclusion’ sets the bar too low” starting here. Erin has spent her career in both the public and private sector, working at companies such as Uber, McKinsey, and Amazon. She is currently the Director of the Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity for the State of Illinois.
